This is great. I wonder if another influence was the liberation theology that would have dominated intellectual discussion among Catholics when Burnham was a young man?
‘I am familiar with that world’ I think you said in a recent Times podcast. An understatement, if ever there was one. A long overdue acknowledgement of an important history. Look forward to reading the book!
Ha - I meant more that I was not baptised Catholic myself. But with a name like mine and a large Irish family on my dad’s side I could never not be at least familiar!
Sorry to presume. Sadly, the prospect of journalism of this insight on the Catholic links to the Labour Party in the West of Scotland seems to be several universes away.
I read this to try to understand the man. As a lifelong Catholic, albeit, a right wing one, I feel more in touch with him and feel a little hope which is much needed after these last few years. At least he obviously has a moral compass and I think I understand where it is pointing.
A nice piece about an under noticed phenomenon. Atheist Clare Short described herself as an ethnic Catholic. That nailed it for me personally. Convinced atheist but forever a De La Salle boy.
As a muslim immigrant coming of age in the north west in the 70’s this was a learning exercise. Thank you.
There are the usual opposing views in the comments but I am an optimists and hope that Burnham puts ideas into practice irrespective of criticisms he will inevitably come across.
Born and raised in Lancashire only by virtue of The Great Hunger, Easter 1916 and the Highland Clearances (accounting for three of my grandparents) cradle Catholic in much the same vein as Burnham, socialist, I was delighted to read your excellent piece. It explains much about a sector of England that many English do not understand. Though I’ve lived variously in Australia, Ireland and am near-certain to decamp Oxford for Scotland, if not Ireland once retirement looms, this heritage is the lens through which I view the world, as it is for my five daughters and now my grandchildren. I think Andy Burnham is Labour’s very last chance, but fear his pragmatism and the horrific Zionist grip on the party may dilute any propensity for real change. I hope I’m wrong.
Does this mean he will reject the zionists shilling? Or have they already primed his pump with Israeli propaganda? Have they already told him which cabinet members to pick?
Great piece. Never knew that Catholicism in England was a northern phenomenon. Similar sounding to Catholicism in Ireland but perhaps not as damaged by power and conservative doctrine.
Business Friendly Socialism was Mussolini, he was catholic too 😜
Andy defended Iraq from the right. I trust him and his Catholicism as much as the Business Friendly Socialist Ramsey MacDonald. Too many right wing pro capital, Blairite, pro growth warning signs and with a manc accent doesn't change anything.
These Liberal Socialists said all the same things 100 odd years ago after the gilded age, the wars, the roaring 20's, the stock bubble that crashed.... 1929, the Great Depression the War that ended it.
Every idea they've had in the last 500 years of capitalism is being tried at once and the fiscal rules are designed to keep it together.
Andy is steading the ship to the collapse of Trump and then his new orders will come in. To miss this about Andy is to miss every vote he really made and not the words he summarises guilt or permission with.
Sorry we were told Blair was the new left, gave us Thatcherism 2.0.
Then it was Starmer and his 10 left wing policy plan—lasts 6 months. Gave us a direct continuation of Sunak a continuation of Thatcher and Blair.
And now the catholic who should be socialist and is anything but —s hould have leanency applied because of his culture and religion?
Make it make sense please? It doesn't make sense as to why?
We were also told, the right wing movements of Starmer before election was political ropadope. Dopes are us for falling for it.
If the only lens to view Andy through is his Northern Catholic Traditional Upbringing. I can point to hundreds like him around the world in politics. The world's full of them, Ireland is full of them and it's a bigger betrayal because of how Ireland is formed.
It is not a good lens.
Andy's Religion and Culture are no grounds for anything really. His Business Friendly Socialism was starting to fail in real time as Mayor, this was his path back to his thirst for leadership and power.
This is great. I wonder if another influence was the liberation theology that would have dominated intellectual discussion among Catholics when Burnham was a young man?
Sounds like Greek orthodoxy. Lightly carried but its values are the water you swim in. Place and culture based. Uncomplicated.
Really enjoyed this cheers Patrick
Great piece. I'm glad someone finally wrote this. There are a lot of us northern, Labour-inclined Catholics that this very much resonates with.
Brilliant piece
Wonder if he'll still be in office for the 200th anniversary of the Catholic Relief Act in 2029?
‘I am familiar with that world’ I think you said in a recent Times podcast. An understatement, if ever there was one. A long overdue acknowledgement of an important history. Look forward to reading the book!
Ha - I meant more that I was not baptised Catholic myself. But with a name like mine and a large Irish family on my dad’s side I could never not be at least familiar!
Sorry to presume. Sadly, the prospect of journalism of this insight on the Catholic links to the Labour Party in the West of Scotland seems to be several universes away.
That's okay! With a name like Patrick Maguire it's surprising that I wasn't!
I read this to try to understand the man. As a lifelong Catholic, albeit, a right wing one, I feel more in touch with him and feel a little hope which is much needed after these last few years. At least he obviously has a moral compass and I think I understand where it is pointing.
I don’t think the world moral compass and Burnham have ever been used in the same sentence at any time in his political life
If Vance becomes the next President of the USA, him and Burnham could have some interesting chats
A nice piece about an under noticed phenomenon. Atheist Clare Short described herself as an ethnic Catholic. That nailed it for me personally. Convinced atheist but forever a De La Salle boy.
As a muslim immigrant coming of age in the north west in the 70’s this was a learning exercise. Thank you.
There are the usual opposing views in the comments but I am an optimists and hope that Burnham puts ideas into practice irrespective of criticisms he will inevitably come across.
Born and raised in Lancashire only by virtue of The Great Hunger, Easter 1916 and the Highland Clearances (accounting for three of my grandparents) cradle Catholic in much the same vein as Burnham, socialist, I was delighted to read your excellent piece. It explains much about a sector of England that many English do not understand. Though I’ve lived variously in Australia, Ireland and am near-certain to decamp Oxford for Scotland, if not Ireland once retirement looms, this heritage is the lens through which I view the world, as it is for my five daughters and now my grandchildren. I think Andy Burnham is Labour’s very last chance, but fear his pragmatism and the horrific Zionist grip on the party may dilute any propensity for real change. I hope I’m wrong.
Does this mean he will reject the zionists shilling? Or have they already primed his pump with Israeli propaganda? Have they already told him which cabinet members to pick?
No he’s not. He’s like many other evil people shrouding their evil with a wiff of incense.
Great piece. Never knew that Catholicism in England was a northern phenomenon. Similar sounding to Catholicism in Ireland but perhaps not as damaged by power and conservative doctrine.
Business Friendly Socialism was Mussolini, he was catholic too 😜
Andy defended Iraq from the right. I trust him and his Catholicism as much as the Business Friendly Socialist Ramsey MacDonald. Too many right wing pro capital, Blairite, pro growth warning signs and with a manc accent doesn't change anything.
These Liberal Socialists said all the same things 100 odd years ago after the gilded age, the wars, the roaring 20's, the stock bubble that crashed.... 1929, the Great Depression the War that ended it.
Every idea they've had in the last 500 years of capitalism is being tried at once and the fiscal rules are designed to keep it together.
Andy is steading the ship to the collapse of Trump and then his new orders will come in. To miss this about Andy is to miss every vote he really made and not the words he summarises guilt or permission with.
Sorry we were told Blair was the new left, gave us Thatcherism 2.0.
Then it was Starmer and his 10 left wing policy plan—lasts 6 months. Gave us a direct continuation of Sunak a continuation of Thatcher and Blair.
And now the catholic who should be socialist and is anything but —s hould have leanency applied because of his culture and religion?
Make it make sense please? It doesn't make sense as to why?
We were also told, the right wing movements of Starmer before election was political ropadope. Dopes are us for falling for it.
If the only lens to view Andy through is his Northern Catholic Traditional Upbringing. I can point to hundreds like him around the world in politics. The world's full of them, Ireland is full of them and it's a bigger betrayal because of how Ireland is formed.
It is not a good lens.
Andy's Religion and Culture are no grounds for anything really. His Business Friendly Socialism was starting to fail in real time as Mayor, this was his path back to his thirst for leadership and power.
You are wrong. Mussolini wasn’t Catholic at all. He was a lifelong anticlerical and atheist.